You're viewing an article in iPO's historic archive vault. Here, we've preserved the comments and how the site looked along with the article. Use this link to view the article on our current site: Zune Hits Stores, Nobody Notices

News

Zune Hits Stores, Nobody Notices

Microsoft's Zune media player hit store shelves on Tuesday, but consumers don't seem to be showing much interest. Manhattan's midtown Best Buy store sold only about 20 units in the first three hours they were available, according to FoxNews.

The Times Square Virgin Megastore in New York City, didn't even have any of the players, but it wasn't a big deal since no one was asking for them. Employees were the only people near the product display all morning.

IDC analyst Danielle Levitas commented "Apple will not feel any bit of discomfort from Zune, certainly this holiday season and a good part of next year."

Despite the general disinterest in the Zune, it isn't likely to go away. Microsoft plans to stick with the product long-term in an effort to dislodge Apple's top-dog position with the iPod.

Ms. Levitas added "Microsoft is going to put tons of money in this over time, much like they did with the Xbox. It's not about the first generation."

Microsoft did find at least one buyer on Tuesday that was looking for a non-Apple player. Donna Murphy purchased a Zune simply because it's not an iPod. Her reasoning: "I'm not an Apple fan, not an iPod fan. So I wanted to try something different."

Time will tell if there are enough Donnas out there to boost Microsoft's Zune sales, but for now it looks like the player may be collecting dust on store shelves.

67 comments from the community.

You can post your own below.

+ show options

Your current settings, click to change: Sort Oldest First, Show Guest Posts, Hide Community Stats

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I will check one out later, there is Best Buy up the street.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Nice. The only people who buy Zune are militant anti-Apple freaks. I guess they'll find people like that anywhere.

Quote this post ↓

jimothy said:

member since 04 Jun 2004 with 612 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I work with a guy like this. His son wants an iPod, but he says he's going to buy him a Zune because he, like Ms. Murphy, is not an Apple fan.

Poor kid.

Quote this post ↓

Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Hey guest, Microsoft built its gigantic market share in operating systems by not being Apple. It's a time tested stratergy.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Bosco wrote:
Hey guest, Microsoft built its gigantic market share in operating systems by not being Apple. It's a time tested stratergy.

Huh? I thought it had more to do with being the in right place at the right time while IBM and Apple made poor decision after poor decision, thus letting MS win the OS market by default, despite having a very mediocre product.

Or is that what you were saying?

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Hey Bosco,

Microsoft build a gigantic market share in operating systems with a closed license scheme that forced OEM to sell IBM clones with Windows pre installed or sell no IBM clone with Windows pre installed at all.

Times changes and selling hardware is something different than selling software.

(o wait, Microsoft never sold software they licensed it)

If you buy a Zune I bet the user agreement contains a paragraph according which you didn't buy a MP3 player but payed $299,99 for a license to use it.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

I never really thought the Zune was a threat to the iPod... that was until I went on to all these Apple sites and read all these shamefully biased posts. That's one thing about Apple that continues to amaze me. They've managed to confuse some customers into thinking competition is a bad thing.

Ah well, I've got an iPod Video and to be honest the Zune looks like a better player any way you slice it. I mean at the worst the Zune contains every feature the iPod has... at best it includes a widescreen, FM tuner, wifi options on top of anything the iPod offers. The only thing keeping me from upgrading is the fact it's limited to 30gigs. Same thing that prompted me to choose Apple before instead of a Creative Zen Vision. IMO the Zen remains the best player on the market for Divx/Xvid support alone.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Guest wrote:
I never really thought the Zune was a threat to the iPod... that was until I went on to all these Apple sites and read all these shamefully biased posts. That's one thing about Apple that continues to amaze me. They've managed to confuse some customers into thinking competition is a bad thing.

Oh, boo hoo hoo. You are a vegetable, aka a plant. Please go back to typing up meaningless marketing department memos over in your Redmond cubicle.

Zune is roadkill this holiday season, let your bosses know.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

I'm fascinated by the people who acknowledge that the Zune is clunky compared to the current iPods and then go on to make a "1st generation" excuse by saying that the first iPod wasn't as slick as the current ones.

Well, the first iPod was better (or at least on par) with all the other players of its time.

And look at it this way, it is widely accepted that the first mass-produced car was the Model T, if Yamaha was to decide to get into car manufacturing today and their first car was a poor knockoff of a Model T with brown paint and a radio... I think you get the point.

Quote this post ↓

Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I don't understand, Guest. You mean Microsoft doesn't sell software? What is this license thing you talk about? Enlighten us please.

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

James Kim over at Cnet has a video review of the Zune.

One thing that he commented on. If you have the WiFi feature turned on and someone sends you a tune, your music will stop and you will be given a prompt to yea or nay the file.

I am going out in a bit to run errands and will try and check out a Zune

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

I am getting so sick of people touting the Zune as having a bigger screen than the iPod as a great feature. It has the exact same resolution as the iPod. That means that any video you watch will be stretched. Like watching standard definition TV on a HDTV. How does that make it a better screen? I would rather have a screen that is meant for that resolution and sized correclty than a screen that has bigger pixels that distorts the image. Maybe on a screen that small you won't notice much of a difference but I still would rather have a screen with a better picture representation.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

The Zune is finally here, and... man, what a disappointment.

I mean, the BEST Microsoft could do is repackage a Toshiba Gigabeat as a big, heavy, ugly brown brick? What the H? These guys are supposed to be world-beaters, after all.

I guess the analysts are right, for once. Apple definitely will not be "feeling any discomfort" over the Zune. MS needs to go back to the drawing board.

Quote this post ↓

macinnerd said:

member since 15 Jun 2005 with 1748 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
I don't understand, Guest. You mean Microsoft doesn't sell software? What is this license thing you talk about? Enlighten us please.

When you buy Windows, you don't BUY Windows, you buy yourself the right to install and use it on your computer.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Guest wrote:
I never really thought the Zune was a threat to the iPod... that was until I went on to all these Apple sites and read all these shamefully biased posts. That's one thing about Apple that continues to amaze me. They've managed to confuse some customers into thinking competition is a bad thing.

Ah well, I've got an iPod Video and to be honest the Zune looks like a better player any way you slice it. I mean at the worst the Zune contains every feature the iPod has... at best it includes a widescreen, FM tuner, wifi options on top of anything the iPod offers. The only thing keeping me from upgrading is the fact it's limited to 30gigs. Same thing that prompted me to choose Apple before instead of a Creative Zen Vision. IMO the Zen remains the best player on the market for Divx/Xvid support alone.

Actually - we *know* competition is a good thing. But Microsoft has never been "competitive" -- they have been market-agressive buying out those they couldn't beat. That's not competition. That's ownership and monopolistic activity.

On top of that - you obviously are a Zune fan posing as an iPod user. The Zune doesn't have every feature the iPod has at the same quality. The bigger screen is made worthless in the fact that it has the very same pixel resolution as the iPod - therefore, it just has bigger pixels. Which in turn generally means less quality video. The wifi *only* works within a 30ft range *only* with other Zunes. Not general wifi, which I have on my Nintendo DS Lite. FM tuner is going to sap battery life. And on and on and on.

And to top it off - we're not fuc4ing confused - we know a good product when we see one - and it's the iPod.

Quote this post ↓

Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

When you buy Windows, you don't BUY Windows, you buy yourself the right to install and use it on your computer.

Wait. So if Microsoft is so successful with this, why don't other software companies do this? Do they have a business model patent? I'm really glad Apple doesn't do this though. It is very important to me to own my stuff. You know that phrase "renters are scum"? No kidding.

Quote this post ↓

Biff said:

member since 08 Apr 2004 with 1479 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Guest wrote:
I never really thought the Zune was a threat to the iPod... that was until I went on to all these Apple sites and read all these shamefully biased posts. That's one thing about Apple that continues to amaze me. They've managed to confuse some customers into thinking competition is a bad thing.

Ah well, I've got an iPod Video and to be honest the Zune looks like a better player any way you slice it. I mean at the worst the Zune contains every feature the iPod has... at best it includes a widescreen, FM tuner, wifi options on top of anything the iPod offers. The only thing keeping me from upgrading is the fact it's limited to 30gigs. Same thing that prompted me to choose Apple before instead of a Creative Zen Vision. IMO the Zen remains the best player on the market for Divx/Xvid support alone.

Haha another marketing "specialist" who thinks their wants and needs automatically mirror those of the rest of the public. Given the market share of the Zen, it would appear that DivX doesn't mean crap to 99% of the population. The thing I find most amusing about the Zune is that it is slightly larger than the full sized iPod in a time when the majority of iPod sales are Nano's and Shuffles.

Quote this post ↓

Biff said:

member since 08 Apr 2004 with 1479 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
When you buy Windows, you don't BUY Windows, you buy yourself the right to install and use it on your computer.

Wait. So if Microsoft is so successful with this, why don't other software companies do this? Do they have a business model patent? I'm really glad Apple doesn't do this though. It is very important to me to own my stuff. You know that phrase "renters are scum"? No kidding.

Dude, seriously. You've gotta stop forgetting to put humor in your joke posts. Humor is a very important part of a joke.

Quote this post ↓

macinnerd said:

member since 15 Jun 2005 with 1748 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
When you buy Windows, you don't BUY Windows, you buy yourself the right to install and use it on your computer.

Wait. So if Microsoft is so successful with this, why don't other software companies do this? Do they have a business model patent? I'm really glad Apple doesn't do this though. It is very important to me to own my stuff. You know that phrase "renters are scum"? No kidding.

Eh, as a software developer you should know everything about licensing... So I guess you're joking here, right?

Quote this post ↓

Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Biff, I do performance art, not Family Guy gags. You know how most 12 year olds don't like the taste of coffee? I'm sorry, of course you do. It's the same with humor. Life experience makes the subtle much more entertaining. But I'll try to add an occasional fart joke so you can feel included.

Macinnerd, yeah, you've figured it out. It is always funny to stir up the tinfoil hat crowd, whatever their pet conspiracy. Especially funny when they can't shoot you!

Quote this post ↓

mshoaf said:

member since 02 Dec 2002 with 112 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I still don't get why people would want FM Radio in their digital music player. The whole reason I HAVE an iPod is so I don't have to listen to the radio!!!!

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I checked one out.

Yes, it is bigger. Not so much as say a scientific calculator, but noticeably bigger than an iPod. I could not heft it because Best Buy had it fixed to a display.

The music quality was good. I am not an audiophile with a discerning ear, and those folks will probably have a different opinion, but it was good enough for me. Best Buy did not have any headphone or ear buds attached so I used my Sony ear buds. In fact they had the mini plug from an iPod dock connector plugged into the Zune with the dock connecter onto the iPod, some sales training is in order.

The controller took a bit getting used to after using an iPod scroll wheel, but I learned it fast enough.

Now this I don't like, but I guess they had no option, or they couldn't figure out an alternative. You navigate the menus with the screen in portrait mode, buy you need to rotate it 90Ñ” to landscape mode in order to view photos and video. At this point the control points sort of also rotates 90Ñ”; You click up and down to navigate a menu to chose photos, but then after you turn it to view photos click right or left to go through an album.

The photo quality is okay. I do not think that it is as good as, or as bright as, those on an iPod. The display would not let you physically turn the Zune, you had to move your head around. To be fair I would need to see a side by side comparison of the same photo on an iPod and Zune before making a firm opinion.

The video was okay, but I did not get to check out for more than a few seconds because the battery ran down and the Zune auto shut off. They had a cable plugged in, but it would not play off of the USB bus or whatever it is they have hidden below the display. I asked the saleskid, and he said it needs to be plugged into a computer in to play and charge it concurrently. They did not yet have the standalone AC charger, the Zune ships with just a USB charger/sync cable. I didn't get the feel that the salesman knew much about the Zune other than "It is nice", again some training is probably in order.

Now a lot of folks crap on the brown color, but I liked it, softer than my iPod's snow color. They also had a black model, which was more charcoal than black, it too did not look bad. Both have a chrome bezel around the screen.

I wish I could have tried it more before the battery ran down. I guess I will head to the nearest MicroSoft brick and mortar store and see if they have a better display

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

"I mean at the worst the Zune contains every feature the iPod has"

Except for the scroll wheel, audio book playback, connection to an online store that offers games, videos, tv, movies & podcasts, album art and 1.5 million more songs to choose from. Yes, it's good that the zune offers *everything* that the ipod offers.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

So for us lefties, is there an option to rotate the screen so the controls are on the left side when it goes into landscape mode?

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

I think Apple will come out with a Zune Killer really soon!

Quote this post ↓

mahuti said:

member since 09 Jan 2003 with 377 posts, TMO Staff, send him a message or view his profile

Guest wrote:
I think Apple will come out with a Zune Killer really soon!

Yeah, like 4 years ago... is that soon enough?

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

mshoaf wrote:
I still don't get why people would want FM Radio in their digital music player. The whole reason I HAVE an iPod is so I don't have to listen to the radio!!!!

Just one word for you, son--baseball. Okay, and NPR. That's about it for radio, otherwise it's a total wasteland..

Quote this post ↓

nealg said:

member since 22 Mar 2006 with 123 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Edison Carter wrote:
I checked one out.

Now a lot of folks crap on the brown color, but I liked it, softer than my iPod's snow color. They also had a black model, which was more charcoal than black, it too did not look bad. Both have a chrome bezel around the screen.

I wish I could have tried it more before the battery ran down. I guess I will head to the nearest MicroSoft brick and mortar store and see if they have a better display

Edison,

I agree with much of what you said. I tried it out at Target yesterday and they had the many of the same problems. The display, which the store people said came from MSFT, doens't allow you to do much with the Zune. It doesn't let you get a good feel for it because you can't pick it up and you can't rotate it.

The "clickwheel" is a real fakeout. The buttons are responsive so I think they should have left it without the fake wheel.

They only had one real Zune on display. The other was a mockup. If you wanted to try the wifi feature, you were sol. Rather silly when this is one of your differentiating selling points.

I liked the colors and thought the brown also looked ok.

Battery was an issue when I first arrived as well. With the store person, got it up and running.

Sound was ok but one of the speakers on display wasn't working.

I have heard since that Zune is not presently supported in Vista. I was wondering if that was going to be a problem.

No support for podcasts and books as well as macs.

My overall impression is that Zune is an ok player but to really evaluate it totally, you really need to be able to plug it into your own computer and see how it works with your system. (If MSFT really wanted to sell these, I think they should have put a computer with Zune software with each display for people to play around with-that is if they were confident that they had something special). For me, iTunes ease of use is what really helps sell the iPod. If Zune software has issues, makes it another reason not to get it. My opinion is that the Zune won't be that appealing to many, especially the way it is presently being displayed. If there was anything special about it, you really couldn't tell the way they have it all locked up. Maybe that is MSFT's strategy . I see this mainly as a player for Apple and iPod haters this holiday season. But even for them, they will need to get it to work on their machines. If it doesn't, it will be put away in a drawer somewhere and will be of value at the antiques roadshow about a hundred years from now . JMO though.

Neal

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Not exactly what Mr.Balmer had in mind as far as sales figures go. I believe the time it took to sell 20 Zune players a new model iPod would have sold out completely accross the country.

Quote this post ↓

Biff said:

member since 08 Apr 2004 with 1479 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
Biff, I do performance art, not Family Guy gags. You know how most 12 year olds don't like the taste of coffee? I'm sorry, of course you do. It's the same with humor. Life experience makes the subtle much more entertaining. But I'll try to add an occasional fart joke so you can feel included.
LOL. Oh I see. How cliche. Like the designer who says people have no taste when nobody likes their crappy design.

Woah I got an awesome idea, dude! Like they could have these ads with a guy playing iPod and a guy playing brown Zune and they are like totally like the Mac and PC guy ads and like the brown Zune could like fart and stuff! Haha!

Quote this post ↓

Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Woah I got an awesome idea, dude! Like they could have these ads with a guy playing iPod and a guy playing brown Zune and they are like totally like the Mac and PC guy ads and like the brown Zune could like fart and stuff! Haha!

You've certainly got Family Guy humor down. Are you one of their writers or did they actually do that routine this season?

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
When you buy Windows, you don't BUY Windows, you buy yourself the right to install and use it on your computer.

Wait. So if Microsoft is so successful with this, why don't other software companies do this? Do they have a business model patent? I'm really glad Apple doesn't do this though. It is very important to me to own my stuff. You know that phrase "renters are scum"? No kidding.

I guess I see the joke, but, as you well know, there is a world of difference between the way Microsoft handles licenses and the way Apple does. With Microsoft products (e.g., Windows, Office), to be "legal," you need serial numbers and, with Windows, you have to "authorize" the installation. If you have to reinstall the OS for some reason, you have to go through that process again. With Vista, if I understand correctly, it will be "worse." The OS will be crippled until it is authorized and, if you're on a network and try to use two PCs with the same Windows serial number (not a multiple license), it will shut down.

Apple, on the other hand, does not use serial numbers or registration codes for OS X, the iLife applications, or AppleWorks. It does use serial numbers for iWork and FileMaker Pro (owned by Apple), though it's possible to run two copies with the same serial number on a network. (That was not always true for FileMaker Pro--at one time, it would shut down if it detected another copy with the same serial number on a network.) I don't know about the "pro" applications like Final Cut or Apeture.

Thus, it's easy to move OS X and the Apple applications I'm familiar with from one computer to another or even to (not so legally) install them on multiple computers. Apple does sell a "family package" of OS X, but one does not need the family pack to install OS X on, say, an iMac and a laptop. The only time I've needed to "authorize" a Mac for an Apple application was for the iTunes Store.

(For what it's worth, it was also pretty easy to move MS Office 2004/Mac from one Mac to another and I could run two copies with the same serial number on a network. This might have as much to do with how OS X works with networks as it does with the applications. The "trouble" I had with FileMaker Pro in the past was with an OS 9 version.)

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Poor Donna Murphy. I can imagine her running around the country trying to find at least one other person with a Zune... New Ad... "Microsoft Zune Welcome to the Social.... Where?"

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Guest wrote:
I am getting so sick of people touting the Zune as having a bigger screen than the iPod as a great feature. It has the exact same resolution as the iPod. That means that any video you watch will be stretched. Like watching standard definition TV on a HDTV. How does that make it a better screen? I would rather have a screen that is meant for that resolution and sized correclty than a screen that has bigger pixels that distorts the image. Maybe on a screen that small you won't notice much of a difference but I still would rather have a screen with a better picture representation.

Most of us who follow tech gadgets know the difference between a native resolution screen and one which has larger pixels or stretched proportions thus being a larger footprint, what isnt being argued here is that most people have no damn idea what native resolution vs stretched means let alone care to understand, all they see in a Zune is a larger screen and for some people thats going to be the dealbreaker. If you dont get what I'm talking about, go to the DVD section at your local superstore and listen to the people buying DVD's who say that full screen (pan and scan) movies let you see more of the movie (that kills me!). Most people are simple and dont care for whats in a device, people buy on first impressions. Am I saying people will pick the zune over the iPod? No, what I am saying is that given the screen size alone as the decision maker brand name aside, they will gravitate twards the zune.

Surely the Zune will get better in time but MS needs to iron out the issues, kill the useless features and come to the understanding that Apple has a multi year head start in this game, they picked a rough road to success in this market I guess they need a tax write off. The fact that I have not heard but squat on the radio regarding the zune release only proves to me how successfull this product will be.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Nobody seems to have noticed, but the lady who bought Zune wanted 'something different'. Just a little ironic!

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

For the media chatter about the Zune being an "alternative" to the iPod, it sure has had a lame release. They could have at least given some to the glitterati and have them seen with it on talk shows.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I heard on CNN Radio this evening that stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy are bracing for an onslaught as people line up with chairs, sleeping bags, and even tents, to be first in line at the stores tomorrow. The reason: the launch of the Sony PlayStation 3. Contrast that with the launch of the Zune.

It shows, among other things, that there's not much special about the Zune. There are other game consoles, but dedicated players want the latest/greatest, even though it may have problems. (E.g., it's been revealed that the PS 3 will not play some earlier games, despite Sony's claim that it would.) Obviously, few people consider the Zune to be the greatest, even though it is the latest.

Also contrast the ho-hum attitude toward the Zune with the rush of pre-orders for the iPod Nano, 5G, and Shuffle. Again, it shows that the few "new" features of the Zune (really only one "new" feature--the "squirting" thing) are not very exciting.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Anonymous wrote:
mshoaf wrote:
I still don't get why people would want FM Radio in their digital music player. The whole reason I HAVE an iPod is so I don't have to listen to the radio!!!!

Just one word for you, son--baseball. Okay, and NPR. That's about it for radio, otherwise it's a total wasteland..

In that case, get the Apple iPod Radio Remote or the Griffin iFM. Then, you'll have a remote control AND a FM radio. Now, what I would like would be an add-on AM radio, to listen to talk radio.

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

gslusher wrote:
I heard on CNN Radio this evening that stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy are bracing for an onslaught as people line up with chairs, sleeping bags, and even tents, to be first in line at the stores tomorrow. The reason: the launch of the Sony PlayStation 3. Contrast that with the launch of the Zune.

When I was Best Buy this afternoon they had a sign telling gamers where to queue up, there was no one there at that time. This evening I passed by Best Buy and there were a few dozen people lined up.

As to the radio feature. The only important reason for me would be in time of emergency, such as a 9/11 or Katrina where I need news and the cell phone system is down. This would be when I out and afoot somewhere, at home I have several battery powered radios. Yeah include an AM radio so I can tune in to CONLRAD, remember when radios tuners had tick marks on the emergency frequencies so that you could find them easier. Excuse me I need to go duck and cover.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

What's the big deal about squirting? I've been squirting strangers for years. Oh, you mean sqirting music. ok, nevermind.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Edison Carter wrote:
As to the radio feature. The only important reason for me would be in time of emergency, such as a 9/11 or Katrina where I need news and the cell phone system is down. This would be when I out and afoot somewhere, at home I have several battery powered radios. Yeah include an AM radio so I can tune in to CONLRAD, remember when radios tuners had tick marks on the emergency frequencies so that you could find them easier. Excuse me I need to go duck and cover.

Ah, but the iPod's battery will deplete, too. You can get external battery packs for the iPod that use 9v or AA batteries, if you have a bunch of those. However, your best bet for emergencies would be a handcrank-powered radio. Grundig makes several. Some include a light and/or a charger outlet for (some) cell phones.

I remember CONELRAD--you're dating both of us! Today, they don't use special frequencies so much, but regular stations would broadcast emergency information, as they did during Katrina.

Quote this post ↓

DanielDecker said:

member since 15 Apr 2005 with 23 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Just to clarify, Apple's Pro and Pro-sumer (Final Cut Express) apps are serialized and network aware, as is OS X Server. You can install OS X Server on more than one machine with the same serial number, but you can't do any of the really cool network stuff like Open Directory binding (between servers) for network services without individual serial numbers for each server.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

DanielDecker wrote:
Just to clarify, Apple's Pro and Pro-sumer (Final Cut Express) apps are serialized and network aware, as is OS X Server. You can install OS X Server on more than one machine with the same serial number, but you can't do any of the really cool network stuff like Open Directory binding (between servers) for network services without individual serial numbers for each server.

That fits with the behavior of the "old" FileMaker Pro--i.e., applications aimed at business/professional users are more carefully controlled than the basic OS or consumer applications.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

notice what!??!

what happened?

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Screw Donna

Quote this post ↓

horvatic said:

member since 27 Jun 2003 with 102 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Bosco wrote:
Hey guest, Microsoft built its gigantic market share in operating systems by not being Apple. It's a time tested stratergy.

I think there stratagy is failing them now.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Edison Carter wrote:
gslusher wrote:
I heard on CNN Radio this evening that stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy are bracing for an onslaught as people line up with chairs, sleeping bags, and even tents, to be first in line at the stores tomorrow. The reason: the launch of the Sony PlayStation 3. Contrast that with the launch of the Zune.

When I was Best Buy this afternoon they had a sign telling gamers where to queue up, there was no one there at that time. This (Wednesday) evening I passed by Best Buy and there were a few dozen people lined up.

That's actually an endorsement of how popular the Playstation 3 is, since its not going on sale 'till midnight Thursday at earliest.

If you saw people standing in line Wednesday evening, then they're willing to wait in line over 24 hours to get one, which is pretty devoted.

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

I walked by Best Buy early this morning when I was on my cardio-vascular walk. There were a number of tents set up and others just bundled up against the chill. The line went around the back of the building and I didn't investigate further, but there must have 50 or more people there.

From what I have read thus far, the Zune not yet selling well. Maybe next weekend when the Christmas shopping season starts in earnest, starts most every place for that matter.

Anonymous wrote:
Edison Carter wrote:
gslusher wrote:
I heard on CNN Radio this evening that stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy are bracing for an onslaught as people line up with chairs, sleeping bags, and even tents, to be first in line at the stores tomorrow. The reason: the launch of the Sony PlayStation 3. Contrast that with the launch of the Zune.

When I was Best Buy this afternoon they had a sign telling gamers where to queue up, there was no one there at that time. This (Wednesday) evening I passed by Best Buy and there were a few dozen people lined up.

That's actually an endorsement of how popular the Playstation 3 is, since its not going on sale 'till midnight Thursday at earliest.

If you saw people standing in line Wednesday evening, then they're willing to wait in line over 24 hours to get one, which is pretty devoted.

Quote this post ↓

vasic said:

member since 09 Aug 2005 with 279 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

On Amazon's bestsellers in electronics, Zune is a very respectable no. 11; however, half of those ahead of it are various flavours of iPod. (Nos. 2,3,4,7 and 9). Top seller is a Canon digital camera, and there is a Sandisk MP3 player in the top 10 - still beating out the newly released Zune. This reminds me very much of Windows CE. If it plays out like Windows CE (takes five years to get it reasonably right), Zune is as good as dead. Whereas, Palm was clueless and allowed MS to continue (very, very slowly) to improve its platform, without Palm improving (meaningfully) its own, Apple is no Palm, and Tungsten (or Treo) is no iPod.

MS has cash to burn and burn it they will. Losing more than $50 per device sold (and will continue to do so, since they can't really ramp up the production that much if nobody buys the devices), the investors wil eventually begin to ask questions. Let's watch...!

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Anonymous wrote:
I am getting so sick of people touting the Zune as having a bigger screen than the iPod as a great feature. It has the exact same resolution as the iPod. That means that any video you watch will be stretched. Like watching standard definition TV on a HDTV. How does that make it a better screen? I would rather have a screen that is meant for that resolution and sized correclty than a screen that has bigger pixels that distorts the image. Maybe on a screen that small you won't notice much of a difference but I still would rather have a screen with a better picture representation.

I don't know - for years people were always willing to pay more for the bigger (standard definition) television sets even though they had the same number of pixels. I'd gladly keep my 27-inch TV over a 13-inch TV any day. Bigger is better - even if it only has the same number of pixels.

Quote this post ↓

vasic said:

member since 09 Aug 2005 with 279 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Well, TVs and iPods are not exactly the same. You watch a 13" TV in your kitchen (or your dorm room, or your minivan) where the distance between your TV and your eyes is no more than six times the diagonal of that screen. Watching a 27" TV from that distance would definitely look much less atractive, as you would be able to actually see the 'pixels' (actually individual lines). Your iPod (or Zune) can only be so far from you; you can't move it much further away from your eyes. Same pixel count with a larger screen, watched at arm's distance means less crisp and sharp picture and (for those with good eyesight) visible pixels. Bigger is definitely better, but only when accompanied with the appropriate pixels.

Quote this post ↓

Edison Carter said:

member since 10 Aug 2006 with 228 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

The MSN coffee maker with built weather forecast feature. I would give it four stars if it had an FM tuner so it could also give me traffic reports. http://www.yourgrindredefined.com

Quote this post ↓

Terrin said:

member since 29 Jan 2006 with 414 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

The only problem with your comment is it is false. The iPod video has several features that the repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat (aka Zune) does not. First, the iPod can be used as a hard drive to transport files. Second, the iPod has an alarm clock built in. Third, the iPod allows you to watch videos on your television with nothing more then a cord.

Plus there are other differences. For instance, the iPod has a better screen, although it is a bit smaller. The fact that the Zune has a bigger screen should not matter, since the video is displayed in the same size as on the iPod.

Most importantly, Apple has stood up to try and keep download prices reasonable. Apple's dominant position allows it to do this. If Microsoft every sells a significant amount of these, consumers will be worst off. Microsoft has already agreed to give a record company a percentage of the player sales. Eventually this will translate to higher prices for you.

Finally, it is unfair to compare the current iPod with the Zune. Everybody knows Apple will be releasing a new high end iPod after the Christmas season. It merely refreshed the current iPod because it sells more Nanos and Shuffles during the Holiday then high end iPods.

Anonymous wrote:
I mean at the worst the Zune contains every feature the iPod has... at best it includes a widescreen, FM tuner, wifi options on top of anything the iPod offers.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

vasic wrote:
On Amazon's bestsellers in electronics, Zune is a very respectable no. 11; however, half of those ahead of it are various flavours of iPod. (Nos. 2,3,4,7 and 9). Top seller is a Canon digital camera, and there is a Sandisk MP3 player in the top 10 - still beating out the newly released Zune. This reminds me very much of Windows CE. If it plays out like Windows CE (takes five years to get it reasonably right), Zune is as good as dead. Whereas, Palm was clueless and allowed MS to continue (very, very slowly) to improve its platform, without Palm improving (meaningfully) its own, Apple is no Palm, and Tungsten (or Treo) is no iPod.

An update, as Amazon updates the list often:

- Canon cameras 1, 7, 12, 15, 17, 20, 22, 23

- iPods 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 24

- Koss in-ear headphones 6

- SanDisk MP3 player 8, 25

- Kingston Flash Drive 9

- Zune (black) 13

- Garmin GPS receiver 14, 18

- Linksys wireless router 16

- Sony Camera 19

- Canon inkjet cartridge 21

Notice that only one of the Zunes (black) made it. It's interesting that neither white iPod made the list, either, and that the better-selling SanDisk player is black. Black is the top color. (The pink and silver Nanos also made the list. The Product (RED) did not, yet.)

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know - for years people were always willing to pay more for the bigger (standard definition) television sets even though they had the same number of pixels. I'd gladly keep my 27-inch TV over a 13-inch TV any day. Bigger is better - even if it only has the same number of pixels.

Several comments:

1. That's so that one can sit further away from the screen.

2. If you're dealing with analog televisions, "pixels" are completely meaningless. What counts there is lines of resolution.

3. The larger TVs now have MORE pixels.

That is ignoring how digital displays (LCD, plasma) actually work.

Quote this post ↓

Nookster said:

member since 27 Oct 2004 with 111 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

But we are only talking about a few centimetres worth of screen, this is hardly going to cause massive pixillation.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Nookster wrote:
But we are only talking about a few centimetres worth of screen, this is hardly going to cause massive pixillation.

Pixilation isn't the problem. "Softness" or "fuzziness" is. WIth the same number of pixels, a smaller screen will look sharper and clearer, as the pixels are closer together. To see this dramatically, open an iPod-sized video (320x240) in QuickTime Player, then press command-2 to double the size of the image.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

gslusher wrote:
Nookster wrote:
But we are only talking about a few centimetres worth of screen, this is hardly going to cause massive pixillation.

Pixilation isn't the problem. "Softness" or "fuzziness" is. WIth the same number of pixels, a smaller screen will look sharper and clearer, as the pixels are closer together. To see this dramatically, open an iPod-sized video (320x240) in QuickTime Player, then press command-2 to double the size of the image.

This is true. The vid iPod's screen is indeed very, very sharp, and difficult to beat in terms of image quality. The Zune's screen is softer.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

This just in: BROWN Zune FLOPS.

Black Zune is #13 in Amazon sales rank. Brown? #46. Bwahaha.

So much for all the MS marketing guys... err, sorry, 'posters', who kept insisting on the AI forums that brown was the new 'cool' color. LOL!

To be fair, white is doing even worse than brown. But still, sorry MS, brown is not cool, no matter how many times your marketing drones repeat that it is.

Quote this post ↓

Dirt Road said:

member since 24 Oct 2002 with 1239 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Edison Carter wrote:
When I was Best Buy this afternoon they had a sign telling gamers where to queue up, there was no one there at that time. This evening I passed by Best Buy and there were a few dozen people lined up.

There were people camped out for a couple of days at one BestBuy I went to. My son was one of them, getting paid $100 to hold a place in line (personally, I think he got ripped off). I wouldn't have gone over there, but had to pick him up a prescription — if I knew I'd have been stuck with this chore, I would have brought cameras.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Heh heh... the BROWN Zune has slipped to #63 in Amazon sales rank.

Looks like brown was actually "the new suck", not the new black.

Quote this post ↓

rebbi said:

member since 28 Feb 2005 with 31 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

One indication of the lack of enthusiasm for the Zune: Our local Fry's Electronics takes out a huge, eight-page, full-size ad in the local paper every Friday. Not one mention of the Zune, anywhere! Lots of Apple and iPod stuff, as well as some Sandisk players, but no Zune to be seen.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Check this entry on The Gadgeteer site. The author admits that she loves her iPod, but decided to buy a white Zune. She had to get a Windows computer, as well. (Notice what's behind her in the photo. Hint: it's large, white, rectangular, and floats above the desk.)

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

At least we now have the evidence that Bill Gates and his bitch, Steve Ballmer have been intimate. They, and very few others, believe that they were able to conceive something adorable and named it "Zune", without realizing that it's brown, GUI, and sticky, and that it has no legs. It really stinks and anyone who carries Zune around also stinks. By tomarrow, they should be waking up to these facts and realizing that it should have been left in the toilet--unless that is, that they look at their sales metrics and feel that going from #9 to #31 since its debut for the black Zune on Amazon's hot list means that its gaining. The brown one has fallen off the top one hundred list as I write this.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

The zune is not bad, half of what everyone says bad probably isn't true when they think they know the economics of all this, if you are this smart go to college and get a degree in economics. The Zune does what it has to, plays music and vids ok, picture isn't that bad, neither is the interface. Click wheel is nice but not essential. The zune is probably not as polished as the ipod but its a very good player and a nice alternative if your sick of seeing the bland ipod all the time

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Anonymous wrote:
The zune is not bad, half of what everyone says bad probably isn't true when they think they know the economics of all this, if you are this smart go to college and get a degree in economics. The Zune does what it has to, plays music and vids ok, picture isn't that bad, neither is the interface. Click wheel is nice but not essential. The zune is probably not as polished as the ipod but its a very good player and a nice alternative if your sick of seeing the bland ipod all the time

Now, that's a great example of "damning with faint praise." As Tom Peters often said, any product that is "good enough" is destined for the scrap heap. Notice all the wishy-washy words: "not bad," "ok," "isn't that bad," "not as polished," etc. (Not to mention the spelling and grammatical errors.)

In order to sell well, the Zune would have to have some attraction that places it above/beyond the iPod. The iPod has had five years to mature and take over the music player market.

- Price? Nope. It costs the same as the 30 GB iPod. Plus, the iPods outsell many MP3 players that are cheaper,

- Features?

-- FM tuner? Lots of MP3 players have it--and the iPods outsell them all.

-- WiFi sharing? It's severely lamed--it puts DRM even on music you've created, yourself. (A side note: I'll bet that parents aren't too thrilled about the "squirting" idea, especially if they have younger kids.)

-- Larger screen? Well, it is physically larger, but with the same number of pixels. The screen is in portrait mode in normal use, which means that there are only 240 pixels across, vs 320 for the iPod. That makes the text harder to read. Also, to watch a video, you have to turn the Zune sideways and the faux clickwheel controls turn, also. That SEEMS like a good idea--until you use it.

-- Interoperability? The Zune cannot play iTunes Store songs, of course, but it also CANNOT play Microsoft's "Play For Sure" songs sold by other online services. The iPod syncs with OS X and Windows (older iPods also sync with OS 9.2); the Zune only syncs with particular versions of Windows XP and Vista. iTunes supports versions of Windows (e.g., Windows 2000, some versions of Windows Media Center) that the Zune software does NOT support.

-- Formats? The Zune cannot handle some formats the iPods can, including (if you believe this!), .bmp photos--that's Microsoft's OWN standard!

-- Podcasts? You cannot subscribe to podcasts through the Zune software. You'll have to use another RSS or PodCatcher software. (The Zune software will load them on the Zune if they're downloaded to a specified folder.) Also, podcasts appear like a song, rather than in a separate list. The Zune cannot handle "enhanced" podcasts that put pictures where the album art goes. (TMO's own podcasts often use that feature.)

-- Audiobooks? The Zune cannot (yet) play audiobooks from Audible, though many other players can. It can play .mp3 audiobooks, but, if I understand correctly, it cannot bookmark audiobooks. If you leave an audiobook to play a song, when you go back to the audiobook, you'll have to search for where you stopped. The iPod not only supports bookmarking but chapter divisions.

- Style? The iPod is "bland"? Give me a break. Ask any teen which is "bland," the iPod or the Zune. Remember that the Zune form is NOT a Microsoft design. It's a rebranded Toshiba player with a few things added. At least, this time, Microsoft had to pay the company it "borrowed" a design from.

- User interface? The Zune CAN be a bit easier to choose songs than the iPod, but try scrolling INSIDE a song, much less something like a podcast or audiobook. That's one place where the clickwheel works much better. Same with scrolling rapidly through a list. The clickwheel lets you intuitively control the speed--the faster you move your finger, the bigger jumps it takes.

Two recent observations:

- I went to the local Costco outlet several times in the weeks before the holidays. At first, they had a display of Zunes (well, big, empty plastic blister packs, which the buyer takes to the cashier), right next to the iPods. The next time I went in--and, remember, this is just before Christmas, the Zune display was gone--not moved, gone. In its place were iTunes Gift Cards and more iPods. They also had a raft of iPod accessories, mainly speakers, radios, boomboxes, and the like. I was there, again, Dec 26: no Zunes, but lots of iPods and iTunes gift cards. No Zunes.

- Also on Dec 26, I went to a Best Buy store and an Office Depot. Both had the Zune. You can't handle the Zune on display--it's tied down tightly to the stand. (The Office Depot display had only a plastic, non-working display. The stand for a "real" Zune was empty.) At Best Buy, there was a small crowd around the iPods and iPod accessories, but no one was even looking at the Zune. The salesperson confirmed that very few people even bothered to check out the Zune.

The real proof, though, is in the sales. Remember that the Zune has a built-in distribution system (the X-box dealers). Yet, when it goes head-to-head with not only the iPods, but the mp3 players from SanDisk and Creative, it loses and loses badly. Check Amazon's hourly-updated consumer electronics bestseller list. After a VERY brief stint in the top 25, the Zune dropped precipitiously, getting as low as about #80. The black Zune (the only one to break the top 100 list) is at #57 at this moment. (One thing to remember: Amazon considers every color and size iPod to be a separate item. You can also tell that it's after Christmas, as the Nanos have dropped down quite a bit, along with most digital cameras.) A few items ahead of the Zune:

- iPod video (1, 8, 23)

- iPod Shuffle (2)

- iPod Nano (6, 31, 33, 48)

- iPod accessories (9, 20, 22, 24, 35, 38)

- Sansa music player (3, 11, 12, 54)

- Creative Zen player (13)

- Canon cameras (7, 15, 16, 28, 36, 37, 42, 47)

- Other cameras (14, 51)

- Garmin GPS (17, 18, 21, 25, 44)

- Logitech devices (29, 41, 46, 49, 50)

- Memory cards (5, 10, 53)

- USB thumb drives (4, 52)

and, to really drive home the point:

#30 - Ink tank for Canon printer

#45 - Spindle of 100 DVD-R disks

#56 - HDMI cable

(For what it's worth, that same ink tank has been ahead of the Zune every time I've checked over the past two weeks.)

That doesn't speak very well of the Zune's sales.

Quote this post ↓

gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2088 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Well, it happened: the Zune has fallen completely out of Amazon's 100 Bestsellers in Consumer Electronics. It was beaten by several ink tanks for Canon printers, HDMI cables, hard drives, routers, and spindles of DVD-R and CD-R, as well as the ever-popular iPods, Canon digital cameras, iPod accessories, Garmin GPS units, and various memory cards. SanDisk's players are also prominent, plus two by Creative near the bottom.

Quote this post ↓

Post Your Comments

  Remember Me

Not a member? Register now. You can post comments without logging in, but they'll show up as a "guest" post.


Please enter the word exactly as you see it in the image above. Registered users aren't prompted for this. Having trouble reading the image get a new one.