News

Five Apple TV Surprises [UPDATED]

Friday, March 23rd, 2007 at 3:00 PM - by

The Apple TV doesn't, in fact, require a High Definition TV, according to Rogue Amoeba Software's report on Thursday. There were additional surprises.

The author cited Apple's specifications, "Apple TV works with widescreen, enhanced-definition or high-definition TVs capable of 1080i, 720p, 576p, or 480p resolutions, including popular models from these manufacturers," and then proceeded to hook the Apple TV up to his Magnavox TV that has 480i component video in. And it worked.

"My guess is that Apple would rather lose a few customers than confuse everyone," the author wrote. "Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs, so most of the fifty years worth of standard-def TVs out there still won't work with the AppleTV."

There were other surprises:

  • The Apple TV ships without any included cables. None.
  • It works well with music, but navigation is a chore.
  • Not everything iTunes can play can be broadcast to the Apple TV.
  • No streaming. Files must first be synced between the Mac and the Apple TV before playing.

As the Apple TV, which has only been shipping for a few days, gets into the hands on many thousands of customers, there will likely be many more technical revelations.

[UPDATE] iPO notes from the Apple Website "Streamed media travels over your network to your TV — without taking up space on Apple TV’s hard drive. That’s perfect for multicomputer households or when the computer you sync with has more in its iTunes library than will fit on Apple TV."

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:28 pm

No Standard Television support? not surprised.

No cables? not surprised (heck they _stopped_ shipping power cables with their flagship product, iPod).

Navigation a problem, not surprised, Mac organization always confused me.

Lack of integration from Apple iTunes, that is suprising, isn't that supposed to be their thing? Making their ecosystem work together seems to be difficult even within the closed the system Apple forces on consumers. Maybe they should take the open approach and let consumers modify their products to work well with third-party solutions. Not everyone fits in the White Apple Box.

No streaming? that's surprising to find in a TV/computer hybrid system, not sure I'm surprised AppleTV doesn't have it though. All their new initiatives seem to be crippled by lack of support for modern technology (think iPhone on superslow EDGE).

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jcbeckman said:

member since 06 May 2004 with 55 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:40 pm

Syncing is only required for photos. Music and video can be streamed.

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Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 971 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:42 pm

No streaming? WTF? You don't push from iTunes to Apple TV, you actually pull to Apple TV from a shared iTunes library. It works great. Also, on the no cables front... The best deal in the Apple Store right now is XtremeMac HDMI cables. They're like $20 and they're very good quality. In fact, don't be fooled into thinking that a $100 HDMI cable is any better than a $30. To be called an HDMI cable, they have to meet a baseline standard. Where you will find differences between a Monster Cable and a budget RCA from WalMart is in how the cable fits into an HDMI female socket. The cheap ones don't fit quite so cleanly and may have to be jiggled to get a connection. BUT, big bold BUT... The Xrreme Mac cable in the Apple store is exceptionally nice quality. And it's the cheapest one you'll find anywhere.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:50 pm

I have the apple tv, it streams video and audio. I hate these misleading reports!

Not only does it stream, but it does it well.

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toddgarvin said:

member since 27 Dec 2006 with 5 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:11 pm

The things noticed: Its dead quiet. So the only thing I hear is my damn cable DVR box. The video quality was much better than I anticipated. I've hooked my MBP up to my 720p TV serveral times. The streamed movie trailers from the internet look great. Its disappointing that the clips from iTunes aren't widescreen, even if the show broadcasts in HD. I think Apple's plan my relate to my feelings after hooking this up and viewing it for a while... I was immediately wanting to purchase stuff to watch. I downloaded a free episode of Lost and was dissapointed to see it wasn't widescreen. Apple will need to add availability for shows that are available in that format. Also, with FrontRow, I can watch videos just by copying them (or an alias) into my movies folder. Those items don't show up on AppleTV. Only items that are managed directly by iTunes will show as available. So, some good, some bad. But so far I think its a slick little box.

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Spider said:

member since 12 Aug 2001 with 2997 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:13 pm

Actually, you can get HDMI cables of great quality from Amazon.com for $3.95. Yeah, less than that soy latte no carb no fat iced hot mocha espresso double shot triple vodka venti artery killing "coffee" from Starbucks.

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Super-Resolution-Cable-Abacus24-7/dp/B0002L5R78/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-9209211-1792431?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1174680747&sr=8-1

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:15 pm

I am curious if apple tv plays QTVR content. iTunes does.

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toddgarvin said:

member since 27 Dec 2006 with 5 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Quote
Guest wrote:
I am curious if apple tv plays QTVR content. iTunes does.

It will ONLY play content that will also play on a 5g iPod. My guess is no.

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jimothy said:

member since 04 Jun 2004 with 567 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:02 pm

"No streaming. Files must first be synced between the Mac and the Apple TV before playing."

I don't know if Rogue Amoeba updated their article since iPO wrote this, but the Rogue Article never says that. In fact, the headline is, "Surprise #5: Video playback, including streaming, works well."

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kevdo said:

member since 09 Dec 2004 with 54 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:42 pm

>Navigation a problem, not surprised, Mac organization always confused me.

The article said it was a "chore" not an organizational problem. The author is probably desiring a click wheel. Apple TV is organized like an iPod, not a Mac.

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brett_x said:

member since 24 Jan 2006 with 307 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:39 pm

Man it freaks me out when Bosco does his straight-talking. Good info Bosco.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:50 pm

No cables is not a surprise: Most devices that provide multiple interfaces, e.g. printers, do not include interface cables. Apple TV provides multiple outputs and therefore leaves it up to the end user to decide which is appropriate for his situation. Otherwise, Apple would have to include HDMI, component, optical, and RCA cables in the box--that's an unreasonable expectation.

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Terrin said:

member since 29 Jan 2006 with 350 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:13 am

I am not sure about that. Quicktime Pro, however, has a Export to Apple TV feature.

Quote
Guest wrote:
I am curious if apple tv plays QTVR content. iTunes does.

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Terrin said:

member since 29 Jan 2006 with 350 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:14 am

PS:

I am surprised about the cables. That is lame and it should have came with them.

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gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2003 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:25 am

Quote
Bosco wrote:
No streaming? WTF?

To think, I just wrote in another discussion that Bosco was "respectful." Of course, I did add that he is respectful of those deserving respect.

Quote
Terrin wrote:
PS:

I am surprised about the cables. That is lame and it should have came with them.

To quote Bosco in another thread, "Bullshitake." See the post two above yours. Heck, most printers don't come with cables--and they typically have only one interface, not four.

Quote
toddgarvin wrote:
Also, with FrontRow, I can watch videos just by copying them (or an alias) into my movies folder. Those items don't show up on AppleTV. Only items that are managed directly by iTunes will show as available.

Just convert those videos to Apple TV format and put them into the iTunes Library. You can use QuickTime Pro (I don't know if the free QuickTime player will convert them) or VisualHub. (There are or will be other applications.) It's very likely that Elgato will have an update to EyeTV that will save recorded programs in Apple TV format. The Apple TV may end up being like the iPod, creating a whole "ecosystem" of add-ons, utilities and accessories.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:39 am

Has anyone investigated what are the possibilities with the mysterious USB connector on the AppleTV?

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:48 am

According to the ElGato site, you just save to iPod format and it will make the recordings compatible with aTV automatically.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:01 am

Quote
Anonymous wrote:
No Standard Television support? not surprised.

Not true. It will connect to any television with component inputs, including standard TVs

Quote
No cables? not surprised (heck they _stopped_ shipping power cables with their flagship product, iPod).

What are you talking about? Every iPod ships with a syncing/charging cable. Ether you don't have an iPod and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are spreading FUD.

Quote
Lack of integration from Apple iTunes, that is suprising, isn't that supposed to be their thing? Making their ecosystem work together seems to be difficult even within the closed the system Apple forces on consumers. Maybe they should take the open approach and let consumers modify their products to work well with third-party solutions. Not everyone fits in the White Apple Box.

It does integrate with iTunes. It doesn't (yet) support all of the formats, but can easily be updated through firmware. As for the rest of your post, if it doesn't fit you, don't buy it.

Quote
No streaming? that's surprising to find in a TV/computer hybrid system, not sure I'm surprised AppleTV doesn't have it though. All their new initiatives seem to be crippled by lack of support for modern technology (think iPhone on superslow EDGE).

More FUD. It DOES stream audio and video. It will sync from a primary computer and stream from up to 5 other computers. From the Apple website:

"…stream from many.

If you want to watch video from another computer, you can stream it live to your TV via Apple TV. Streamed media travels over your network to your TV — without taking up space on Apple TV’s hard drive. That’s perfect for multicomputer households or when the computer you sync with has more in its iTunes library than will fit on Apple TV. Just choose up to five additional computers from the Sources menu. As long as a computer’s on your network, it can stream to your TV."

Also, look at a 3G coverage map sometime. Even now, it is primarily in larger cities throuought the world. Little or no coverage outside. Apple went with the more prevalent capability, not necessarily the fastest. Otherwise, people would be whining that they can't use their high speed access because their area isn't covered and Apple screwed them with a technology they can't use. Some people will never be satisfied, no matter what Apple (or anybody else, for that matter) does.

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Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 971 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:51 am

Quote
Intruder wrote:
According to the ElGato site, you just save to iPod format and it will make the recordings compatible with aTV automatically.

So much disinformation on the web... Yes, the Apple TV will play video saved as iPod format. But QuickTime Pro now has an option to save as Apple TV format. Instead of being limited to 640x480 like iPod, the Apple TV format is limited to 1280 x 720.

BTW, There is now one thing I am certain of... When Apple comes out with an 80 core Mac Pro, I am buying it. A 2:30 video I've been working on lately, mastered at 720p, takes 5 minutes to export to Apple TV on my new MacBook Pro, 30 minutes for all the various exports I need to do. I have roughly 743 kilograms of wmv video of my 2 y/o niece that I'd like to throw onto my Apple TV, but it would take until she's retired to convert to Apple TV format.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:08 pm

Bosco,

Not disputing that at all. Just saying that EyeTV will do the conversion automatically (and save to iTunes in the TV Shows folder) by checking that box. That is their current solution for the aTV. QTPro will obviously provide you with more control over the output, but won't do it automatically unless you use watched folders and some Applescript.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:58 pm

Quote
kevdo wrote:
>Navigation a problem, not surprised, Mac organization always confused me.

The article said it was a "chore" not an organizational problem. The author is probably desiring a click wheel. Apple TV is organized like an iPod, not a Mac.

iPod organization sucks too. You ever look at the hard drive with music on it? It totally hacks the organizational structure to pieces when you sync to an iPod, none of the files have descriptive names, it's basically all database id's. It's all Apple's way from preventing you from using other tools, and making it more difficult for the consumer to share their music between computers.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:00 pm

Quote
Guest wrote:
No cables is not a surprise: Most devices that provide multiple interfaces, e.g. printers, do not include interface cables. Apple TV provides multiple outputs and therefore leaves it up to the end user to decide which is appropriate for his situation. Otherwise, Apple would have to include HDMI, component, optical, and RCA cables in the box--that's an unreasonable expectation.

What? Where are you buying your printers from? The past 5 printers I've purchase all came with included cables to attach to the computer. Is it an Apple printer, because that would be inline with how they do business, charge you extra just for a cable so you can actually use the device.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:05 pm

Quote
Intruder wrote:
Quote
No cables? not surprised (heck they _stopped_ shipping power cables with their flagship product, iPod).

What are you talking about? Every iPod ships with a syncing/charging cable. Ether you don't have an iPod and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are spreading FUD.

Intruder, I guess you forget the 4th gen iPod that came with the sync cable AND a power connector for charging from AC power. Charging the iPod from AC is much faster. Apple stopped shipping iPod with the included AC adapter and now ONLY includes the sync cable (which yes, the iPod can charge off of USB, but then you MUST have a computer in order to charge). It's not FUD, it's your ignorance. I could do this for each of your points, but why bother, you just spread your ignorance all over the place and then when some one points you to the IBM page to show you the truth you just shutup.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:34 pm

not just the 4th gen... all the big ipods had power adapters included from 2001 -> 5th gen... with the 5th gen not including one. another interesting evolution for the ipod was firewire.. at first only firewire was supported, then apple added usb, now firewire isn't supported as a way to connect the ipod to your computer... even apple has given up on firewire as a transfer method for one of its most popular products

Quote
Guest wrote:
Quote
Intruder wrote:
Quote
No cables? not surprised (heck they _stopped_ shipping power cables with their flagship product, iPod).

What are you talking about? Every iPod ships with a syncing/charging cable. Ether you don't have an iPod and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are spreading FUD.

Intruder, I guess you forget the 4th gen iPod that came with the sync cable AND a power connector for charging from AC power. Charging the iPod from AC is much faster. Apple stopped shipping iPod with the included AC adapter and now ONLY includes the sync cable (which yes, the iPod can charge off of USB, but then you MUST have a computer in order to charge). It's not FUD, it's your ignorance. I could do this for each of your points, but why bother, you just spread your ignorance all over the place and then when some one points you to the IBM page to show you the truth you just shutup.

Quote this post ↓

Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:12 pm

Quote
Anonymous wrote:
Quote
Intruder wrote:
Quote
No cables? not surprised (heck they _stopped_ shipping power cables with their flagship product, iPod).

What are you talking about? Every iPod ships with a syncing/charging cable. Ether you don't have an iPod and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are spreading FUD.

Intruder, I guess you forget the 4th gen iPod that came with the sync cable AND a power connector for charging from AC power. Charging the iPod from AC is much faster. Apple stopped shipping iPod with the included AC adapter and now ONLY includes the sync cable (which yes, the iPod can charge off of USB, but then you MUST have a computer in order to charge). It's not FUD, it's your ignorance. I could do this for each of your points, but why bother, you just spread your ignorance all over the place and then when some one points you to the IBM page to show you the truth you just shutup.

Not forgetting them at all. You said that they are not supplying power cables. You are wrong. They are not supplying stand-alone power supplies anymore. There is a difference. You can still charge using the provided cable. You are incorrect in your statement. Admit you were wrong. Bet you won't though. You will find some other statement I have made somewhere else on the site and drag that up trying to "prove" that I am "ignorant" about something. It seems to be a rather unhealthy hobby you have. We've had folks like you here before who did the same thing to long term registered members. It really takes away from the site, but since you don't have the guts to actually register and take responsibility for your posts and the reactions they generate, I guess we just have to live with your kind.

And as I said before I misstated on IBM. I meant to say that they no longer manufacture laptops and desktops. Provide was the wrong word to use. Only YOU have latched onto that and made a federal case about it. Nobody else really gave a darn. Rather than just say that it was incorrect, you started with ad hominem attacks. I quit responding because you are just here to troll and find any error and point it out. You really need to get therapy or a life.

EDIT: BTW, the Zune apparently doesn't come with an AC charger either. It charges through the sync cable. Same with the Sansa. Same with the Creative Zen Vision:M. I hope you are also going to those sites and bitching about that.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:15 pm

Quote
Anonymous wrote:
Quote
kevdo wrote:
>Navigation a problem, not surprised, Mac organization always confused me.

The article said it was a "chore" not an organizational problem. The author is probably desiring a click wheel. Apple TV is organized like an iPod, not a Mac.

iPod organization sucks too. You ever look at the hard drive with music on it? It totally hacks the organizational structure to pieces when you sync to an iPod, none of the files have descriptive names, it's basically all database id's. It's all Apple's way from preventing you from using other tools, and making it more difficult for the consumer to share their music between computers.

Probably because it was not intended for the file structure to be viewed standalone. However, there are several utilities that can read that structure and transfer files. Apps like Senuti, for instance.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 2843 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:18 pm

Quote
Anonymous wrote:
another interesting evolution for the ipod was firewire.. at first only firewire was supported, then apple added usb, now firewire isn't supported as a way to connect the ipod to your computer... even apple has given up on firewire as a transfer method for one of its most popular products]

Purely a business decision. At first, it was a Mac-only device, USB was effectively at 1.1 (very few USB 2 devices shipping at that time and very few computers with USB2 installed, no USB2 on the Mac at all) and all shipping Macs had FireWire. Every mac shipped since Fall 2003 or so has both FW and USB2. The majority of Wintel machines in that timeframe and since shipped with USB2 but not FW (since Intel chose not to include FW on their chipset). If you want market penetration (ie. sell to the most people) then you go with what they ALL have, which is USB2. It also saves Apple money (don't have to pay the added cost of the FW chipset, even though the cost is fairly low) and allows them to make a smaller product (again because you don't have to include the FW circuitry). Works for everybody out of the box, can be made smaller and adds to Apple's bottom line. Win-win for Apple and everybody with a fairly recent machine. And you can still charge all of the iPods with FireWire (except the Shuffle), you just can't sync the Gen 5 or the Nano.

It does not mean, however, that Apple has in any way abandoned FW. The only evidence of that would be if they quit including it on their computers. That will probably happen when a better technology comes along to supplant it. That has not happened yet.

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