News

How Apple Had to Backtrack on Ringtones

Friday, September 14th, 2007 at 4:10 PM - by

At one point, Apple was all set to let their customers create their own ringtones for the iPhone. Then the RIAA found out and put a stop to it, according to Daniel Dilger at Roughly Drafted on Friday.

The world of music copyrights is a complex one. "At stake are the complex copyright laws involving derivative works, performing rights, and reproduction rights. Apple’s iTunes breaks open a whole can of worms because it is changing the market for music and video," Mr. Dilger wrote.

While the RIAA won the right to not pay performers royalties for ringtones, it simultaneously maintained the right to collect the monies for those ringtones. In addition, they wanted to make darn sure that any ringtones generated on the iPhone had to pay that royalty. The result was that Apple had to delay its ringtone plans and come up with the scheme that Steve Jobs announced on September 5th.

"Apple negotiated a far lower price than any other ringtone distributor, but the labels are [still] worried that consumers might figure out how to create their own ringtones, just as they were able to figure out how to put music from CDs onto computers and MP3 players, a practice that got out of hand and resulted in more music being handed around for free than legally paid for," Mr. Dilger noted.

The result was a compromise. Apple never shipped a ringtone editor, for any already owned song, and the RIAA gets its fee (which isn't paid to the performer by rule). The bottom line, however, is that Apple did the best it could to protect the interest of their customers and still comply with copyright law. However, the way they're doing it will be very effective against the other mobile service operators, the method once again upsets the status quo, benefits Apple and its customers, and may ultimately win out over the mechanisms used by Apple's competitors.

That's probably the best Apple's customers who are into ringtones can hope for right now.

30 comments from the community.

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burrito said:

member since 07 Aug 2005 with 177 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:41 pm

that's hardcore.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:13 pm

So the right thing to do would be to bi-pass the RIAA, hack your own ringtones, then send some royalty $ direct to the artist.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:16 pm

Guest wrote:
So the right thing to do would be to bi-pass the RIAA, hack your own ringtones, then send some royalty $ direct to the artist.

Damn straight.

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Sir Harry Flashman said:

member since 08 Feb 2007 with 763 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:22 pm

So it is RIAA's fault that I can not create my own music and use it as a ringtone?

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:32 pm

Sir Harry Flashman wrote:
So it is RIAA's fault that I can not create my own music and use it as a ringtone?

You could have ended that sentence with "So it is RIAA's fault". Just about anything after that phrase seems to be true.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 3079 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:38 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Sir Harry Flashman wrote:
So it is RIAA's fault that I can not create my own music and use it as a ringtone?

You could have ended that sentence with "So it is RIAA's fault". Just about anything after that phrase seems to be true.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:39 pm

That does not answer the question why you can make a ringtone from a song you own. You should still be able to convert them for $0.99.

Why can't you make ringtones using midi files or something build directly using garageband without imported wave files. The RIAA has nothing to do with that.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:45 pm

Exactly.

I can compose an essentially unique MIDI file in no time flat. It might not be worthy of selling even 10 copies - but that's the whole point. It would be MINE, and thus distinct from the mainstream crap.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:52 pm

Guest wrote:
That does not answer the question why you can make a ringtone from a song you own. You should still be able to convert them for $0.99.

Why can't you make ringtones using midi files or something build directly using garageband without imported wave files. The RIAA has nothing to do with that.
Because the RIAA is convinced that most music in people's iTunes library is stolen, so likely dictated to Apple flat-out that only iTMS-purchased tracks can be ringtoned. The other option would be to build some kind of original-music-detector into iTunes, which would be so easily bypassed as to not be worth the bother.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:36 pm

And Apple, who have a huge legal team AND the RIAA's court ruling that ringtones aren't a derivative work, chose to do the WRONG thing here and not just release the ringtone converter anyway.

If I had an iPhone, the only ringtones on it would be put on the same way I put them on my V535 - converted and installed by me, from things the RIAA never saw a penny for. And I urge the rest of you to do the same - DO NOT buy music, unless you personally give the musician the money. Do not buy CDs, do not buy from the iTunes store. The RIAA gets a large chunk of that money.

Buy an iPod, and either buy from the musician direct, or download via gnutella or torrent. Yes, it's against the law. Yes, it's the right thing to do.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:33 pm

"Buy an iPod, and either buy from the musician direct, or download via gnutella or torrent. Yes, it's against the law. Yes, it's the right thing to do."

SO.. since you can't do the right thing, go ahead and feel free to do the wrong. Don't get it.

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A guest said: (hide)

Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:55 pm

I truly think that the right thing to do would be to storm the offices of the RIAA with torches and pitchforks, as they have become an out-of-control "Frankensteins" monster!

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:40 am

Are you sure, that's what happened? Any Window Mobile phone can take an MP3 as a ring tone, and that's true for some other phones as well. So why shouldn't Apple be able to do that with the iPhone?

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Terrin said:

member since 29 Jan 2006 with 388 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:54 am

The RIAA loves to say how it is fighting for the artists, and how copyright infringement hurts the artist. However, this shows that the RIAA is merely looking out for the labels. It is a complete contradiction to on one hand fight to exclude the artist from payment, but then on the other hand demand payment for ringtones.

I will never ever ever pay for a ringtone.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:22 am

IU don't get it...every other smartish phone in the world lets you transfer any mp3 to the memory card and set it as a ringtone...I don't follow this iPhone business much, but is this right that you can't just transfer your own media to the iphone and have the tune of your choice set as the ring tone...if apple wants to seriously compete with Nokia eg the N-series etc...it had better learn quickly that most users don't want to pay for jackshit else once they buy their phone.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:47 am

Sounds like bullshit.

I can hookup my speakers to my iPod and legally play music during a picknick.

Then, how could it be illegal to create a ringtone from stuff I own?

This is the industry trying to take away <i>ownership</i> and push <i>licensing</i> as the accepted way to access content.

The only thing I can think of is that Apple signed contracts that only allow the use of iTMS-songs for iPod-playback.

My guess is that they had to renegociate a similar deal for the use of songs for ringtones.

And my next guess is that the industry would only allow this if Apple would make iTMS the only possibility to add "custom" ringtones, because they are afraid to lose a market they are trying to artificially keep alive.

This whole ringtone ordeal is unhealthy business and counter-innovative IMHO.

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Intruder said:

member since 07 Jul 2004 with 3079 posts, TMO Mac Specialist, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:53 am

Well, here is one way to add ringtones for free. Never tried it, as i don't have an iPhone, but the company has a good rep.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:58 am

Guest wrote:

Buy an iPod, and either buy from the musician direct, or download via gnutella or torrent. Yes, it's against the law. Yes, it's the right thing to do.

Apple can't release a ringtone editor, not because it would be illegal, but because they have to compromise with the RIAA or not have access to any music at all. But there is iToner, a 3rd party app, that gives iPhone owners a way to use their own ringtones.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 pm

The best way to hurt the RIAA / music publisher scum is to rip your entire music collection to mp3 and give copies of your collection to anyone who wants it. Don't even do it to make a few bucks, just charge people the price of the blank discs. Over 200 hundred CD's ripped to mp3 at 192kbs (CD Quality) will fit on 5 single layer blank DVD's

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:26 pm

Guest wrote:
SO.. since you can't do the right thing, go ahead and feel free to do the wrong. Don't get it.
Yep, you sure don't get it. "Against the law" isn't always "wrong" if it's the law that's in error.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:53 pm

You can easily add custom ringtones through SSH. Just drop the ringtones into /var/root/Library/Ringtones. You may have to create the Ringtones folder.

To enable SSH, first Download and Install "Installer.app". Make sure your in a wi-fi spot, then using Installer.app install the BSD Subsystem, then install OpenSSH. Once you have this installed use an FTP program to connect to your iPhone. Your connect info should like this:

hostname: Your iPhone's local IP address ( find this in the wi-fi settings, select the network your connected to, then select the green arrow on the right )

user: root

pass: dottie

port:22

If there is an option use SFTP to connect.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:21 pm

I say F**K the RIAA. I've got songs, I've got bluetooth and Audacity, I'll snip 30seconds out of any song I own. (I don't have an iPhone, but a moto)

*suck it*

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:54 pm

Guest wrote:
Exactly.

I can compose an essentially unique MIDI file in no time flat. It might not be worthy of selling even 10 copies - but that's the whole point. It would be MINE, and thus distinct from the mainstream crap.

yeah I also hate that mainstream crap.... good thing you found a totally UNDERGROUND device called iPhone on which you pretend to play your totally UNIQUE ringtone...

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:20 am

FAIR USE - It's called MEDIA SHIFTING

The reason it is legal to rip your own purchased CDs and other media and put them on your MP3 player falls under the fair use umbrella which allows media shifting, moving purchased works from one device to another. It's a little thing that the *AAs seem intent on destroying. Afterall, if everyone knew this was legal, it would be much harder to get people to pay for the same thing 2, 3, 10 times.

The same thing applies to ringtones. If people want to make a ring tone of music they legitimately have rights to, that is also FAIR USE, where you are shifting your music from one device to another - in this case a phone.

What is _NOT_ legal is the distribution of works that you shift, and for the shifted works to remain legit, I believe you have to maintain ownership of the original media. Where this falls into murky water is if your original media is stolen or destroyed. If that happens, I don't know what the rules are. IF you have insurance and get reimbursed 100% for your loss, then I guess you'd have to purchase the same media again (assuming things were still available). But if you didn't have insurance, then what? It would be interesting to know.

I'm so sick of so-called "copyright holders" conveniently forgetting about fair-use. I really hope some of the cases working their way through the courts trying to reinforce fair use win, and that the win is partial or complete forfeiture of copyrights used inappropriately to prevent people's legitimate use under fair use.

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gslusher said:

member since 13 Nov 2002 with 2076 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:
FAIR USE - It's called MEDIA SHIFTING

The reason it is legal to rip your own purchased CDs and other media and put them on your MP3 player falls under the fair use umbrella which allows media shifting, moving purchased works from one device to another. It's a little thing that the *AAs seem intent on destroying. Afterall, if everyone knew this was legal, it would be much harder to get people to pay for the same thing 2, 3, 10 times.

The same thing applies to ringtones. If people want to make a ring tone of music they legitimately have rights to, that is also FAIR USE, where you are shifting your music from one device to another - in this case a phone.

What is _NOT_ legal is the distribution of works that you shift, and for the shifted works to remain legit, I believe you have to maintain ownership of the original media. Where this falls into murky water is if your original media is stolen or destroyed. If that happens, I don't know what the rules are. IF you have insurance and get reimbursed 100% for your loss, then I guess you'd have to purchase the same media again (assuming things were still available). But if you didn't have insurance, then what? It would be interesting to know.

I'm so sick of so-called "copyright holders" conveniently forgetting about fair-use. I really hope some of the cases working their way through the courts trying to reinforce fair use win, and that the win is partial or complete forfeiture of copyrights used inappropriately to prevent people's legitimate use under fair use.

One question: are you an attorney, particularly one specializing in intellectual property law?

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:33 pm

why pay for ringtones on iPhone, when there is iPhoneRingtoneMaker

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:11 pm

"I can hookup my speakers to my iPod and legally play music during a picknick." If the RIAA had its way, youd have to pay for that. As it stands they cannot possibly monitor this sort of use of music, but if there was a way they would charge you for it. FYI.. picnic.

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Terrin said:

member since 29 Jan 2006 with 388 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:27 pm

Actually, you cannot legally hookup your iPod to speakers and play music at a public picnic IF other people can hear the music. You see, that violates the copyright holder's public display rights. The license you purchased doesn't provide for this right. You, however, can legally hook up the iPod to speakers in your home and play the music for yourself and family because this isn't in public. However, as a practical matter record labels are not going to bother you for playing your music at a picnic, but they could if they wanted to.

Moreover, stores cannot legally play music for their customers UNLESS they get permission from the copyright holders. This is no different then the picnic example you listed. It is just in this instance, the labels know they can get money from stores without pissing off music buying customers.

Finally, it is also illegal for you to alter a copyrighted work UNLESS that alteration constitutes fair-use. Arguably, if Apple helped you alter your own songs, it could be found liable for contributory copyright infringement. That is a stretch because it probably is fair-use for you to use a song you purchased as a ringtone (provided it doesn't ring in public). Yet, Apple has to maintain a relationship with the music companies and probably isn't going to test the issue. Not to mention most ring-tones do ring in public at least some times.

When Jobs first announced the iPhone he was asked about people being allowed to use their songs as ringtones. He answered that issue had not yet been decided. It is likely the labels put a lot of pressure on Apple regarding this issue.

Guest wrote:
Sounds like bullshit.

I can hookup my speakers to my iPod and legally play music during a picknick.

Then, how could it be illegal to create a ringtone from stuff I own?

This is the industry trying to take away <i>ownership</i> and push <i>licensing</i> as the accepted way to access content.

The only thing I can think of is that Apple signed contracts that only allow the use of iTMS-songs for iPod-playback.

My guess is that they had to renegociate a similar deal for the use of songs for ringtones.

And my next guess is that the industry would only allow this if Apple would make iTMS the only possibility to add &quot;custom&quot; ringtones, because they are afraid to lose a market they are trying to artificially keep alive.

This whole ringtone ordeal is unhealthy business and counter-innovative IMHO.

Quote this post ↓

A guest said: (hide)

Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:18 pm

I'm guessing this all has to do with how Apple deals with the industry, and how they wanted to structure the integration of ringtones with iTunes purchases. Windows Mobile supports completely custom ringtones, just make a wav file and put it on the device.

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A guest said: (hide)

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:45 pm

Guest wrote:
&quot;Buy an iPod, and either buy from the musician direct, or download via gnutella or torrent. Yes, it's against the law. Yes, it's the right thing to do.&quot;

SO.. since you can't do the right thing, go ahead and feel free to do the wrong. Don't get it.

Not sure if anyone has responded to this yet, but the right thing to do is not necessarily the legal thing to do. Artists make thousands of times more money off of their merchandise that is not CDs than anything they've ever made on CDs. I only wish I could get more of Muse, who i've seen countless times in concert, that wasn't on a US distributers' list.

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